Job Security or being paid more

Don't forget to factor in the cost of living in your decision. Sure I can make double in California, but then I pay more than double for almost everything compared to what I do now.

 

Make a list of pros and cons. List making helps me make decisions.

Well I think it's hard to know without knowing more details, but I'd start with how open is the job market in his field. Are there lots of jobs out there? Or the market is flooded and he's even lucky in this economy to have a job? What are the prospects if he DOES look?

Then I'd look at where the job is. Would you both be happy there.? Would an increased cost of living just eat up the higher salary?

Then I'd look at my DH's happiness (well this be first thing I'd look at). You said "we'll ask for a raise" and "if we get one". There really is no we in a job. It's his job and it's important he be happy in it. Yes, you both live off the income, but he is the one working.

I think starting with asking about a raise is a good step. Certainly no harm in discussing his salary. Secondly it can't hurt to do a job hunt. When I was working I looked and interviewed for other jobs, although in my case it just ended up with me deciding to stay despite being offered a job. But at least I looked at my options and knew what was available to me. Who knows? He might find something that pays more and he's excited about.

But then you have to decide what you're going to do IF there is nothing available to him, or if he doesn't want to take it even if he does find something else. You've mentioned many times how you're living above your means and I believe you've mentioned numerous times about others having to help you out. I'm sure you'd both like to be out of that situation. I think it's time you seriously looked at another job for one of you if he can't find another job with more pay. Good luck though! Maybe there's a great job out there waiting for him.

I am not saying that you will do this, but most people that live above their means, when they get a raise or more income they still continued to live above their means, because that is what they are use to doing. They also are not willing to change their lifestyle or spending habits. And if you are in over your head, you have to learn to cut back and have a budget.

 

In this economy a secure job means a lot. So my first impulse would be to try to work out a doable budget and stick to it.

I agree. Living above your means doesn't necessarily mean not having enough money, so having more money just means you'll be spending even more. Are your expenses greater than income....or are you guys just being frivilous? Not having a job will screw you over regardless of what category you fall into, while more income may not even help if it's the latter situation. I'd stick with the secure job and take a look at where all the money is flying out of the house.

I think you're making a few assumptions that need to be checked ...

 

#1 - The assumption that he has job security now.

 

In the industry where my hubby and I worked (electronics) someone who was around in the same position for over 5 years without a really, really good reason was considered old and stale. Not being moved up in position or transferred to a new challenge is a red flag. Also older or more experienced employees might be one of the first to get laid off when difficult times strike. There are two reasons for this. One is that management assumes that these employees will have an easier time finding another position. They lay them off with less guilt (backwards, I know). The other is that these employees tend to expect more (eventually) in terms of compensation and benefits. Older, experienced employees tend to be "high maintenance". Why keep them around when you can get a flexible person fresh out of college and filled with naive optimism?

 

#2 - The assumption that the survey is correct about what others in the area are earning.

 

I've found those surveys or websites to be wildly inaccurate in salary estimations in both directions. I also have never had a job that was so well focused in title and description that I could easily compare what I was doing to what others with the same title did even in the same company. In the end, when someone asks for a raise, the proposition comes with a demonstration of (a) how much value you contribute to the company - now and in the past - in dollars and (b) how easy you are to replace. There was once a point in time where I worked for a company as a programmer. I had customized a software program for them that ran their manufacturing system. They paid me a ridiculous amount of money to do nothing more than be "on call" to fix problems when they arose and run occasional reports. If I came to the office (I eventually was able to access the company's computer system from home), I mostly sat at my desk and surfed the internet. I put up with being suck in that position for quite a while because my company benefits were paying for orthodontia on two of my step-kids and hubby. As soon as that was over, I quit. They kept me in the position because they couldn't find anyone who was willing to train for my position (hello! dead-end job!) Within a year of my quitting the company sold out to another, larger corporation. Anyway, the point is, I was able to command that stupidly high salary because the company really had little other choice than to pay me if they wanted to keep operating. Salary is very flexible.

 

#3 - That you will stop living above your means if hubby is paid more.

 

You get that, right? It doesn't matter how much we earn. What matters is what we do with it.

 

Personally, I think you need more information.

 

I would research the cost of relocation. Can you sell your house and afford to buy another or find another rental? What would it cost to move? Keep in mind distance. A short move will be less expensive than a long distance move but a new employer might help with the cost of a long distance move. Also, a long distance move may be partially tax deductible. What is the difference in cost of living in any new area he is considering? (There are decent websites for this.)

 

Now, before he asks for a raise, he needs to quietly put out some feelers to see if a new job is even a possibility. Asking for a raise will signal to his employer that he is considering leaving. After all, what will he do if they say "no"? He isn't going to just quietly go back to his desk. He is going to be dissatisfied. So he needs to see if he can get a higher paying job elsewhere or even within the same company. To stay in the company, he can start making noises about wanting more of a challenge and the opportunity to take on more roles. Of course, with their benefit package, why would he want to stay? In the end, the best time to find a job is when you're already employed. As a matter of fact, in this economy, that is a wonderful time to find a job. Companies are seeing lots of resumes from people who are unemployed. It is refreshing to see a resume from someone whose job isn't at risk and is just wanting to get ahead.

When this comes up in my house, I always leave it up to my Dh.  If he is happy in his job, that is what matters most.  If he is not, it is up to him to decide if he wants to look for another job.  Same goes for me.  Dh will occasionally send me postings of job openings and it makes me mad because I am happy where I am.  

 

And having been through unemployment with Dh, I know how tight the job market is right now.  People aren't being paid what they used to and I agree about making assumptions.  It doesn't hurt to look for a job at all.  I tell Dh that all the time--as well as--don't quit your job until you have another one secured.

After reading Cookie's response I want to amend my first thought of asking for a raise. I think it depends..... I know when I was a manager our raises were pretty much set. You were hired in at a certain rate depending on experience and education. Then you got a yearly raise when you got your evaluation. Part of it was the cost of living which was the same for everyone, but an additional part was based on evaluation. The better the evaluation, the larger percentage was added. We didn't just give raises because an employee wanted one or even if we thought they were an exceptional employee who maybe deserved to make more. It was just set in stone. I only had one employee (I had over 70 employees at all times) ever come in and tell me he thought he deserved more money (it was a male RN). I explained to him how the raises were done but he didn't care.....he thought he deserved more. All it did was make me mad and think he was a malcontent. Needless to say he didn't get the raise. So IF the company has pretty much set guidelines for raises, then I'd make sure it didn't look like I was "unhappy" with my salary or it might make them crabby. If they end up needing to lay off someone they might look to lay off the person they think is discontented and maybe looking for another job anyway. So I think it has to be done very carefully if it's done at all. Especially if you don't know there's another job waiting out there.


I agree with this too. It's important for the person who HAS the job to be happy in it, and if not, it's up to THEM to want another job. I would be mad too if someone else was wanting me to change my job if I was content in it.

I'm confused. You wrote: "Like 50% of the homes in our area they are upside down." Does that mean YOU are upside down in your mortgage or do you just not know? I think your market is still pretty stable so selling now so you can be flexible in your job search might be a good idea.

 

As far as Seattle for mechanical engineering, your husband isn't going to get many bites. Seattle is so software oriented. Even Portland wouldn't have many good prospects. My own hubby, which is very hardware and firmware oriented, looked in Washington State for several years - with word of mouth referrals even - and there was nothing (except his other job offer was in Eastern WA, which we decided against because the housing market was so tight). I agree with his current job choice of being in CAD. It seems like that's his best option. You have to know that Seattle just isn't going to be the best market for him - ever.

 

If he decides to look outside of the area, he can consider flying to his job. We know several people who live in places like Boise, ID or other family friendly areas then get on an airplane on Monday morning and fly to their job. They stay in their workplace location for the week then fly home either Thursday night or during the day on Friday. While not a lot of people make the choice to live in Seattle - usually that is the work location - your husband could work in a technical hub like San Jose or the East Bay. It isn't the best set-up and it can really be tough on a marriage (especially since you have two little ones) but lots of people do it.

 

In summary, the fact that he is in hardware and you live in a software zone is the biggest factor. I think he can get another CAD job but it will always pay lower than state average merely because of where you live. Or he can look into changing industries and do a different type of CAD. He could also start to consider doing free-lance work (either at home or at another shop) to get you guys ahead a bit.